When does iMacros get better?

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i_macro_user
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:28 pm

When does iMacros get better?

Post by i_macro_user » Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:54 am

(this is an automatic translation into English - hopefully good to understand)

Hallo

I have known iMacros for 7 years - hardly use it due to the high entry hurdles.

I look at every new version and am amazed that apart from cosmetic corrections, there are hardly any improvements in terms of automation and reduction of the entry hurdles.

I love iMacros ( because of its theoretical possibilities) and I feel the opposite of love ( because of the few improvements for 7 years).

I would be happy if others ( besides user Chivracq ) also post your opinion peacefully and purposefully ( further development of iMacros ).


(1) Keyword relative positioning

Why isn't there a simple 7-year switch that causes iMacros to record scripts according to relative positioning?

Click the first element, from there relative recording.
Easy to program, easy to use for the user.

(2) Keyword number of data records

Why can't iMacros programmers implement such "simple" things as:

Command: Read all data records of the page

Command: Open further pages (as with text extraction, click on the area in which the page is forwarded)

and so forth

(3) Keyword Chrome / FireFox

Why is there no real integration of "iMacros Enterprise Edition" in FireFox and Chrome after 7 years and more?

In FireFox and Chrome you can edit web pages with addons, so that they can be edited more effectively with iMacros.

(4) Keyword

Conclusion: iMacros is not user friendly - and unfortunately there is no alternative known to me - except a few volunteers who extract the data manually.

iMacros wants to be an automation tool - then it should also offer automation (and not just complicated programming, which hasn't been significantly improved for an infinite long time).

( 5 ) Keyword examples and instructions

In the past there were examples - take a look at the start page:

by Tom. Tech Support
on Mon Sep 03. 2012 1:32 pm
by Tom. Tech Support on Mon Jan 23. 2012 4:59 am
by Tech Support
on Sun Oct 30. 2011 4:5S am
by Tom. Tech Support
on Fri Jun 07. 2013 5:32 am
by Tom. Tech Support
on Wed Aug 06. 2014 6:50 am

That was a long time ago.

Why are there effectively no further examples and instructions (with few exceptions) in the forums since 2012?

How-To's and Examples for Form Filling
How-To's and Examples for Web Scraping
How-To's and Examples for Web Testing
How-To's and Examples for Firefox / JavaScript Scripting
How-To's and useful iMacros: All other topics

dead silence

Since 2012, are there no improvements in the "Macros Enterprise Edition" that are worth including in the sections with top examples for current websites?

( 6 ) Keyword Forum

formerly iMacros staff members answered - today mainly Chivracq

Have a look at the subforums - there is almost only the name "Chivracq".

( 7 ) Keyword iMacros Enterprise Edition

Why is there no section for the special features of the "iMacros Enterprise Edition" version?

And for each Enterprise version as a subtopic?

9, 10, 11, 12 ... just hot air?

This is not about the history of "New" functions on the official website.

It is about meaningful and well-documented examples, which are presented here in the forum for discussion.


PS:

It makes a big difference whether I can customize a page with addons like in Chrome and Firefox and apply *all* the functionality of "iMacros Enterprise Edition" to it.

When will this finally be possible?
Hum ... Only professional answers are helpful
Hum ... No complete quotations - limit to the essentials
Hum ... Can we get along in this forum without personal attacks?
Hum ... I use automatic translations
Yes ... I am iMacros beginners :-)
chivracq
Posts: 8416
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:07 pm
Location: Amsterdam (NL)

Re: When does iMacros get better?

Post by chivracq » Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:21 am

i_macro_user wrote:(this is an automatic translation into English - hopefully good to understand)

Hallo

I have known iMacros for 7 years - hardly use it due to the high entry hurdles.

I look at every new version and am amazed that apart from cosmetic corrections, there are hardly any improvements in terms of automation and reduction of the entry hurdles.

I love iMacros ( because of its theoretical possibilities) and I feel the opposite of love ( because of the few improvements for 7 years).

I would be happy if others ( besides user Chivracq ) also post your opinion peacefully and purposefully ( further development of iMacros ).
Yeah, well, nice to ask for my Opinion, I'm nearly flattered, hum...!? :o , but I'm usually a bit busy during WE's, but OK, being nice to you for this one, and you mention indeed a few interesting/constructive "Things"... (and a lot of Bullshit as well like usual, of course, ah-ah...! :roll: )
But hum, you don't need to mention me explicitly in a Thread, I see absolutely all Posts as I have to monitor the Forum, but I only answer when I "feel like it"... :idea:

First time (in the 6 years you've been a Member of the Forum) you make a Positive Contribution to the Forum, I'm already completely Impressed...! :D

I'll try to answer (if I can)/push/support/demystify Item by Item (not sure what you mean by "Keyword" btw), but I "feel" a Negative Spirit on your Post/Thread, perfectly fine to post some Feedback/EnhReqs, but you don't need to go "Down" and "Negative" the first time you mention some EnhReq because they haven't been implemented even before you asked for..., ah-ah...! :o
I've been maintaining a Thread about EnhReqs for several years, => YEARS...!, and hum, I think only a few have been implemented in those YEARS..., but I was alone asking for them, if you don't get other Users supporting your EnhReqs, nothing will change/move...! You never supported any of my EnhReqs afaik...!?
But don't worry, I will incorporate/add your EnhReqs to "my" Thread... 8)
i_macro_user wrote:(1) Keyword relative positioning

Why isn't there a simple 7-year switch that causes iMacros to record scripts according to relative positioning?

Click the first element, from there relative recording.
Easy to program, easy to use for the user.
Hum..., difficult to implement and prone to make "Mistakes", could be done indeed, but I guess only interesting for 1st time 'R-POS' Users who are too lazy to read any Documentation but would like to "see" an Example, will required many-many Hours of Development but won't have any Use for "real" Users, as iMacros tags HTML uniquely based on their POS_Nr, but the "Purpose" of using 'R-POS' is to use another HTML Element as Anchor for that unique POS_Nb...
=> I don't support this one...! Sorry...! :(
i_macro_user wrote:(2) Keyword number of data records

Why can't iMacros programmers implement such "simple" things as:

Command: Read all data records of the page

Command: Open further pages (as with text extraction, click on the area in which the page is forwarded)

and so forth
Hum..., read it several times, but I don't understand this one... Maybe a concrete Example could help to understand what you mean...? :idea:

=> I then have to laugh at the Formulation: "Why can't iMacros programmers implement such "simple" things as:"
=> Tja, if I, and Devs probably as well don't understand the Qt, = the Requirements, then you don't want to see what they will make of it as Implementation, ah-ah...! :shock: :shock:
And tja, to "Why-why-why", I would answer with "When-when-when" did you post that EnhReq on the Forum, or help supporting other Users trying to post EnhReqs and make iMacros evolve towards the Functionality that Users want(ed)...!? I've been trying for years to makes some "Things" change and evolve in iMacros, but I've always been alone, and not much changed, unless you know how to tweet 'a la Trump', not much will happen either with this Thread I'm afraid @OP...! :idea:
i_macro_user wrote:(3) Keyword Chrome / FireFox

Why is there no real integration of "iMacros Enterprise Edition" in FireFox and Chrome after 7 years and more?

In FireFox and Chrome you can edit web pages with addons, so that they can be edited more effectively with iMacros.
Hum, not sure I understand this one either... :?

iMB is based/forked on IE and afaik, you cannot install any Add-ons on iMB... (if I understood the Qt correctly, not sure about that...).
i_macro_user wrote:(4) Keyword

Conclusion: iMacros is not user friendly - and unfortunately there is no alternative known to me - except a few volunteers who extract the data manually.

iMacros wants to be an automation tool - then it should also offer automation (and not just complicated programming, which hasn't been significantly improved for an infinite long time).
"iMacros is not user friendly"
=> Hum, don't know what you mean about that, I find for myself iMacros one of the easiest Tools for whatever, this one is to use for Web-Automation and to record and to customize the Scripts recorded by it, this scores pretty High for me in "User Friendliness" I would think...! :D

"unfortunately there is no alternative known to me"
=> Ah-ah...! :lol: , you didn't really do your Homework then, re-ah-ah...! I'll mention a few "Alternatives", you can google the Names, easy to find...:
- 'Selenium' + 'Kantu' + 'Katalon' just to name a few (Free) ones, only for Web/Test-Automation, full List here or here, but you sound like you are more interested in Data-Extraction and Web-Scrapping, then you have again a full "armada" of different Web-Scrapping Tools, and most very-very Commercial, ah-ah...!
i_macro_user wrote:( 5 ) Keyword examples and instructions

In the past there were examples - take a look at the start page:

by Tom. Tech Support
on Mon Sep 03. 2012 1:32 pm
by Tom. Tech Support on Mon Jan 23. 2012 4:59 am
by Tech Support
on Sun Oct 30. 2011 4:5S am
by Tom. Tech Support
on Fri Jun 07. 2013 5:32 am
by Tom. Tech Support
on Wed Aug 06. 2014 6:50 am

That was a long time ago.

Why are there effectively no further examples and instructions (with few exceptions) in the forums since 2012?

How-To's and Examples for Form Filling
How-To's and Examples for Web Scraping
How-To's and Examples for Web Testing
How-To's and Examples for Firefox / JavaScript Scripting
How-To's and useful iMacros: All other topics

dead silence

Since 2012, are there no improvements in the "Macros Enterprise Edition" that are worth including in the sections with top examples for current websites?
Yeah, that's a good Point I would think..., already from the first Version(s) of iMacros, all the needed Functionality was already implemented and has remained working in the same way (apart from some very minor Changes) all those years, and I've praised iMacros on many Occasions for its Backward Compatibility with previous Versions..., hum, until v10.0.2 for FF, this one is a "Catastrophe"..., I had to go "on Strike" to see some mini-bit finally implemented during the Beta-Testing Phase... I could have used your Support @OP at that time, where were you...!? :wink:
Final Result was not exactly what I had expected/hoped, but, hum..., a bit less bad than before...

But, hum, @OP, and the 'How-tos' didn't really need to be updated since many years because the Software still works the same, you are still a "self-called" Beginner after 6 or 7 years that you can't manage to extract a simple Page/Site without any Help while the Software/Tool hardly changed at all, would you rather have to learn again and again how to use a Tool that would completely be revamped every year or 2 years with every new Version, and have to rewrite absolutely all your previous Scripts...!? :roll:
Yeah, give me a Break, ah-ah...! 8)
i_macro_user wrote:( 6 ) Keyword Forum

formerly iMacros staff members answered - today mainly Chivracq

Have a look at the subforums - there is almost only the name "Chivracq".
Rhhooo...!, yep, this my "Moment of Fame"...! Clap-Clap-Clap, Thank you for helping a few Thousands of Users, don't mention it, I'm blushing...! :oops:

But hum, @OP, I joined in 2013, you joined 1 year before me, how come I've been helping since I joined Hundreds and Thousands of Users, with 7500+ Posts (hum, even if maybe 20%-30% of those 7500+ Posts are probably first about saying "CIM - Mention your FCI for me to have a look...", because apparently that Percentage of new (and older) Users are too stupid to read the Forum Rules when they join a Tech Forum..., hum, I don't even check how many times I had to ask you, @OP, oops...!), hum, and I think another 20% find/found me a complete Moron (rhooo..!, moment of Fame again, and "Moron' is nice, some can be reaaaaally very Creative with Names, pity they don't use that "Creativity" with iMacros, ah-ah...!), but hum, you keep asking Qt's and complaining about iMacros, instead of helping other Users, ah-ah...!? :idea:

Hum, I guess you've edited your Post, I had seen a previous Version about Low Quality on the Forum and asking for Alternatives...:
(Reason why I always systematically quote Posts btw...)
If you don't "like" the iMacros Forum, you have also SOF (Stackoverflow)..., but hum..., SOF is "my Bible" for JS Qt's, but to be honest, the Quality there for iMacros Threads is pretty low usually, as the whole Site feels like a complete Strategy Game that turns only about Reputation Points, I check and see all iMacros Threads there as well, but very-very rarely answer them... You can try of course if that Forum works better for you... But I'm pretty sure you'll quickly come back here, ah-ah...! (Best way I DON'T answer your Thread on SOF in NOT to mention your FCI, ah-ah...! :idea: )
i_macro_user wrote:( 7 ) Keyword iMacros Enterprise Edition

Why is there no section for the special features of the "iMacros Enterprise Edition" version?

And for each Enterprise version as a subtopic?

9, 10, 11, 12 ... just hot air?

This is not about the history of "New" functions on the official website.

It is about meaningful and well-documented examples, which are presented here in the forum for discussion.

PS:

It makes a big difference whether I can customize a page with addons like in Chrome and Firefox and apply *all* the functionality of "iMacros Enterprise Edition" to it.

When will this finally be possible?
Hum, Sub-Forums about a special Version or specific Functionality is not a good Idea I would think, let me take an Example..., you are "complaining" @OP about Functionality 'X' not being implemented (yet) in any or some Browser/Version, we had the "Case" for the 'EVENT' Mode which was first implemented in iMacros for FF from v8.24 I think, around 2013 when I joined the Forum I think, and for many years, 'EVENT' related Qt's/Threads were specific to the 'iMacros for FF' Sub-Forum..., until it in 2017 got implemented in iMB v11.5 (+ iMB v12.0) and around the same time in v10.0.1 for CR..., => Threads related to the 'EVENT' Mode now belong to the 'General' Sub-Forum as this Functionality is not specific anymore to FF... (... and is actually not even supported anymore in v10.0.2 for FF, ah-ah...! :shock: )

Same with '.js' Scripts, and I guess I could find a few more Examples...
New Functionality always gets "first" implemented in one Browser/Version, and then eventually later in other Browsers/Versions, after fixing the first "Glitches"..., and some new Version of some Browser might even completely block/break that Functionality, or some existing Command...
=> That's a bit as well one Explanation about your Qt why hardly any new Functionality got implemented in iMacros since several years, concerning iMacros for FF for example that I mostly/only use for myself, I still use v8.8.2 which is now about 5 years old, as absolutely all Versions after v8.8.2 have always been Versions to make iMacros for FF work AGAIN with some later FF Version that was breaking the previous Version due to the wild Development of FF from Mozilla...
Only v9.x to v10.x came from a "Mix", v9.0.3 not working anymore on FF at all from FF57+ due to the Web-Extensions, and Ipswitch "took advantage" of the forced Revamp to introduce a 'Free' (Limited) Version and a 'PE' Version (Personal Edition) with more Functionality for Paying Customers, to try to make a bit of Money, tja, can't really blame them for that, ah-ah...! The Dev-Team needs to be paid as well, ah-ah...!

=> Hum, some stupid Qt then @OP...?:
How come you've been posting regularly on the Forum all those years if you've been using iMB and the Enterprise Edition...? Users using the Enterprise Edition have a Support License and have direct Access to TechSupport and don't have to endure stupid Morons like me only using some Free Add-on, the Forum is actually meant for (Free) Users helping (Free) Users... Or did you "forget" to pay for your Enterprise License maybe...? :wink:
- (F)CIM = (Full) Config Info Missing: iMacros + Browser + OS with all 3 Versions...
- I usually don't even read the Question if that (required) Info is not mentioned...
- Script & URL usually help a lot for a more "educated" Help...
chivracq
Posts: 8416
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:07 pm
Location: Amsterdam (NL)

Re: When does iMacros get better?

Post by chivracq » Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:13 pm

chivracq wrote:
i_macro_user wrote:(1) Keyword relative positioning

Why isn't there a simple 7-year switch that causes iMacros to record scripts according to relative positioning?

Click the first element, from there relative recording.
Easy to program, easy to use for the user.
Hum..., difficult to implement and prone to make "Mistakes", could be done indeed, but I guess only interesting for 1st time 'R-POS' Users who are too lazy to read any Documentation but would like to "see" an Example, will required many-many Hours of Development but won't have any Use for "real" Users, as iMacros tags HTML uniquely based on their POS_Nr, but the "Purpose" of using 'R-POS' is to use another HTML Element as Anchor for that unique POS_Nb...
=> I don't support this one...! Sorry...! :(
Hum..., coming back to this one about 'Relative Positioning' as, after "thinking" a little bit more about it, I actually do see a "legitimate" Use indeed for that Functionality, ah-ah...!, and I've added it to "my" List of EnhReqs, or actually "integrated" it into one of the EnhReqs I already had/have, see Item '-08-':
chivracq wrote:
-08- Add an 'EXTRACT' Recording Mode (based on 'TAG' Mode).
=> http://forum.imacros.net/viewtopic.php? ... 807#p70393
=> http://forum.imacros.net/viewtopic.php? ... 818#p74803
EDIT [2018-09-01]: + When in 'EXTRACT' Mode, (try to) automatically use 'Relative Positioning' based on the corresponding Header Cell as 'Anchor' for example if recording in a 'TABLE' or based on the corresponding 'LABEL' as 'Anchor' if recording in a 'FORM':
=> https://forum.imacros.net/viewtopic.php ... 978#p79978
Yeah..., could be useful indeed in those Cases...! 8)

But hum..., my "original" EnhReq about this 'EXTRACT' Mode is already from 2.5 years ago, from Feb 2016, and has never been "acknowledged" by TechSup nor even less by Dev, so I guess there is pretty very little Hope to see it implemented one day...! :oops:

But I still don't agree with "Easy to program, easy to use for the user."...!
Nope, it's not that easy to program, and even less easy to use for the User, or only in a way that will in most cases be useless for the User...

And I know because I've actually already implemented that Functionality in a few of my own Scripts where the Scripts are able to "dynamically" adapt 'R-POS' by themselves if the Content or Structure of the Page changes/changed (for example if some Col(s) and/or Row(s) were added/removed from a Table to recalculate on the fly the "correct" "Rn" Value to use) and I use that Technique as well to implement (dynamic) 'R-POS' for the 'EVENT' Mode as well... (Never posted (yet) I think, on how "I do it", ah-ah...!, but it requires quite some "clever" Thinking, ah-hum...! :wink: )

>>>

And hum again..., I realize I sometimes "miss" the 'EXTRACT' Functionality with the 'EVENT' Mode, as for more and more Sites/Pages with dynamically generated Content, the 'TAG' Mode often fails where the 'EVENT' Mode (still) works, but extracting some Content from the 'EVENT' Mode is pretty cumbersome and requires "Trick" on "Trick"... (and only works on FF, at least until v9.0.3, I think it doesn't work anymore in v10.0.2 for FF as it requires the 'MODIFIERS' Parameter which I think is not supported anymore in v10.0.2 for FF...)
I will add that as EnhReq as well...

>>>

Hum, and @OP, about the List of EnhReqs I mentioned and linked to, feel "Free" to review it and to "express" your Support by posting in "my" Thread and mentioning which EnhReq(s) you support...! 8)
- (F)CIM = (Full) Config Info Missing: iMacros + Browser + OS with all 3 Versions...
- I usually don't even read the Question if that (required) Info is not mentioned...
- Script & URL usually help a lot for a more "educated" Help...
chivracq
Posts: 8416
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:07 pm
Location: Amsterdam (NL)

Re: When does iMacros get better?

Post by chivracq » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:24 pm

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Hum, was a bit of a "fake" Qt, I realize now, as 10 days later there is still no Follow-up, and @OP didn't even bother to check their Thread anymore after posting their OP... Oh well...! :mrgreen:
- (F)CIM = (Full) Config Info Missing: iMacros + Browser + OS with all 3 Versions...
- I usually don't even read the Question if that (required) Info is not mentioned...
- Script & URL usually help a lot for a more "educated" Help...
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